Christopher Nolan has guided the Batman franchise back to prominence as its director and, as a producer, will look to help Zack Snyder do the same for Superman next year. His talent as a storyteller is not often disputed, but is he the ideal architect for the DC Universe on film that Warner Bros. hopes to create? The Gentlemen, joined by “The Lady” (Jen), examine the possibilities.
Later in the show, we dive headfirst into a discussion about the moral and ethical implications of Batman’s actions in Nolan’s films. How does his decision to not save Ra’s in “Batman Begins” align with his “One Rule?” What about his role in Harvey Dent’s death at the end of “The Dark Knight?” The answers to these questions are, as you might imagine, debatable.
All this, plus we open the show with our breakdown of writer Scott Snyder’s revelation in “Batman” #10.
Download the show HERE.
8 Responses to MMM Podcast, Episode 75: Batman Guru Turned DC Architect?
Looking forward to listening , great questions asked . Man it’s so nice to have these discussions and go beyond a few good action sequences or shoddy dialog that many of these CBM tend to have .
Keep up the good work gang and ” let the games BEGIN ”
1) The ONE thing that leaves me a little less than satisfied by Nolan’s Bat-trilogy (I’m gonna go ahead and assume I will at least LIKE TDKR) is the exclusion of Robin. If John Blake was Nolan’s nod to Robin, how do you think Nolan & Co. would build that into his character?
2) If Robin were included in the reboot, would you rather see Dick Grayson’s story, or Tim Drake’s?
This whole “Nolan-as-the-godfather-of-the-DC-Universe” thing is probably just the studio trying to trade on his name but let’s say for the sake of agreement that it is true; I don’t think it’s a great idea and I say that as a long time fan.
For all the talk of the fidelity the Nolan Trilogy has to the comics there’s one thing that doesn’t get said very much: Bruce Wayne as presented in the previous two films (and presumably the third) is very much the archetypal Nolan hero. He’s the soul brother of Leonard Shelby, Will Dormer, Robert Angier, Cobb and the Young Man from Following. The reason his batman movies were so successful is because his sensibilities lent themselves to the character. Nolan’s a talented storyteller but he’s got a particular sensibility that’s not necessarily right for every Hero in the DC stable.
You also have to allow for the possibility that the Dark Knight Rises is going to shit the bed and that it might become an albatross that diminishes Nolan’s stock. Probably won’t but it’s not out of the realm of possibility. I’m not making a prediction either way I just remember a time when everyone thought George Lucas was a genius. Then The Phantom Menace got released. There was a time when The Wachowski’s were on the cutting edge of film making. Then they released The Matrix Reloaded. Post Sixth Sense, Unbreakable and Signs, M. Night Shyamalan was supposed to be the next Speilberg. History is littered with guys who once could trade on their name. I’m not entirely sure Speilberg is “Speilberg” anymore.
It’s an interesting question for sure. While WB could obviously do a lot worse then to have Christopher Nolan shepherd the rest of the DCU on film, I’m not exactly sure he’s the right guy for the job. I’m not sure he really buys into the fantasy of these characters. With Batman he did everything he could to ground the character and his world in a sort of heightened reality. Everything had a rhyme and reason to it. And that approach worked great and there’s nothing wrong with it, but it’s just a very specific approach that makes me wonder if he could embrace all of the mythology, magic and sci-fi elements that go with the territory when dealing with a JL film or even just solo films of other DC characters.
Honestly, the person I keep looking to is Bruce Timm. I know his career has always been in animation, but you can’t tell me he and other guys like Paul Dini or Alan Burnett and others who have worked on all the great animated Batman, Superman and Justice League shows/movies wouldn’t have some ideas for what WB should do with their live action DC films. I know animation and live action are two different things, but I think Timm and a few of his collaborators have a very good idea of what makes these characters tick and could at least provide a very solid blue print for DC on film.
I don’t really see how Bruce Wayne is similar to Nolan’s other protagonists. Maybe there’s a few similarities, but Cobb for example is a criminal, and Bruce Wayne is a guy who fights criminals. Nolan is more than capable of presenting characters with a wide range of sensibilities, and has proven it time and time again.
As far as Nolan being the builder of the DC Universe, ultimately I don’t think it’s going to happen. But I will say that Nolan seems like the kind of guy who won’t put his name on something that he doesn’t believe in. I admit that’s a naive statement, but if you remember the reason why we heard nothing about TDKR for so long was because he was so focused on Inception. From all accounts, He’s very dedicated to concentrating on one film at a time.
I think the point about the other film directors like Lucas and M Night is fair, but just because history dictates that a lot of big time directors falter at times doesn’t mean it will happen to Nolan. Has Scorsese faltered? Not really. We shouldn’t shy away from Nolan getting the DC Universe job because we are all afraid his first bad film will be one of these DC movies, whether it’s in the directing chair or in a producing role. The evidence we have right now is that the majority of people believe Nolan hasn’t made a bad movie, so why isn’t he the right man for building the DC Universe? BUT that’s only if he actually wants the job.
The Archetypal Nolan Hero (S * P * O * I * L * E * R * S):
1: Lead Character suffers a traumatic experience that will shape the events moving forward.
Leonard Shelby’s house is broken into. During the assault he suffers a head injury that results in short term memory loss and his wife is murdered.
Will Dormer accidently kills his partner Hap Eckhart during a police pursuit of Walter Finch.
Bruce Wayne’s parents are murdered in the alley by a mugger.
Robert Angier’s wife drowns in a magic trick gone wrong.
Bruce Wayne’s old girlfriend (and Harvey Dent’s fiancé) is killed in an explosion that scars Harvey Dent.
Robet Angier’s wife is killed.
Cobb’s wife commits suicide.
2: There is the question of complicity in the events.
Leonard Shelby’s wife may have survived the assault by subsequently died from an insulin overdose that he administered.
Will Dormer may have shot his partner on purpose because Eckhart was about to reveal what he knew to Internal affairs.
Bruce Wayne may have gotten his parents killed because he was the one who wanted to leave the theater.
There is the question of which knot Alfred Borden used to tie up Angier’s wife during the magic trick.
Bruce questions if he brought chaos on the city (and is responsible for Rachel’s Death) because of his presence in Gotham.
Cobb’s wife committed suicide because he performed an inception that caused her to question reality.
3. Lead Character sets out on “a mission”.
Leonard Shelby hunts for the man who killed his wife.
Will Dormer hunts Walter Finch.
Bruce Wayne vows to “show the people of Gotham that there city doesn’t belong to the criminals and the corrupt.”
Angier engages borden in a game of one-ups-man-ship.
Cobb performs another inception, this time on Robert Fischer.
Bruce goes on a mission to take down the Joker while Harvey Dent goes on mission as for “Justice”.
I have to agree with the other 2 comments, to me Chris Nolan is like a modern day Alfred Hitchcock, they both do dark, complex, psychological dramas very well, and they’re both extremely innovative at coming up with unique kinds of story structures and film techniques, but I don’t know if that particular kind of genius can be applied to different film genres, and Batman is the only big name DC character that works as “Crime Drama” the rest are more “Sci-fi” or “Fantasy” related
Someone like Paul Dini, who’s currently writing the Angelina Jolie “Maleficent” film, would probably be a better choice to oversee the DCU on the big screen, he seems to have a knack for adapting, simplifying, and making the DC characters accessible for animation, and I think in order to make successful motion pictures, or big the DCU to life on film, you need someone who can translate the individual characters that the fans know and love, into something that the general public can relate to, not simply apply a successful director’s style to everything (ever seen the Tim Burton – Nick Cage -Superman photos?) and no offence to Chris Nolan, I don’t think Alfred Hitchcock would’ve made a good Wonder Woman movie either
Hello, Gentlemen. Could you please answer this question in regard to The Dark Knight Rises in the next podcast?
IF Gordon-Levitt is really Robin in the film, and it’s a big if, how do you think Nolan would adapt the Robin character in the Gotham he created. In terms of realism how do all of you think Robin could possibly work in the Nolan-verse. Keep up the good work!