BatmanSuperman OPEN FORUM: BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE written by Robert Reineke March 24, 2016 It’s been a long, tumultuous road for BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE, at least in the internet conversation, but it’s finally here. As I type this, early reviews are in the negative camp. Perhaps fortunately, it still looks to open very big. This is a big launch to a shared universe on film and there are no shortage of topics. For instance, this is arguably the 4th iteration of Batman since 1989, and potentially the one most like the comic books. How does Ben Affleck shape up in the role? Are you excited for a solo Batman film potentially directed by and starring Ben Affleck? This is Henry Cavill’s second outing as Superman. How does he do this time out? This is the first live action appearance of Wonder Woman at the movies. Does Gal Gadot make the role her own? Are you excited for her solo movie? Jesse Eisenberg takes on Lex Luthor which has certainly been a much debated point in the lead up to the film. Is he up to the task? Plus, we’ve been promised appearances by Aquaman and The Flash. How does the film do leading up to JUSTICE LEAGUE? Was Zack Snyder the right choice to spearhead the DC Universe on film? And, we’d be remiss to not talk about Amy Adams, Jeremy Irons, Holly Hunter, Lawrence Fishburne, and the rest of the supporting cast. Any favorites? So, dig in. Those worried about spoilers may wish to wait until after their viewing, but I expect that this will be a lively topic. OPEN FORUM: BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE was last modified: March 24th, 2016 by Robert Reineke Related Batman v Superman: Dawn of JusticeOpen Forum 50 comments 0 Facebook Twitter Google + Pinterest Robert Reineke previous post Review – BATMAN V SUPERMAN Is A Disappointing Dawn For The DC Universe next post Weekly Ratings Roundup: March 20 to 26, 2016 You may also like But Wait, There’s More ‘The Dark Knight... May 27, 2012 Nokia Trailer for ‘Man of Steel’ June 6, 2013 New ‘Man of Steel’ Banner! May 4, 2013 Bald Men Favored for Lex Luthor in... August 8, 2013 New ‘The Dark Knight Rises’ Trailer! June 19, 2012 75 Years Of Superman In 2 Minutes October 16, 2013 MAN OF STEEL Cavill Can’t Stop Being... January 23, 2012 #WeAreBatman February 22, 2013 ‘The Dark Knight Rises’ TV Spots! May 24, 2012 L.A. Live Showcases THE DARK KNIGHT LEGEND November 30, 2012 Adrian Edmondson About to see this in 35 mins …just read Sean and Jett’s review …. I’m trying to control my emotions and hope to be entertained but all the reviews keep coming back to the same “issues” . I’ll chat back after I see it for myself later …. juliana rodrigues I thought I wasn’t going to like it, because of the bad reviews, but I enjoyed it. Has problems, but It’s not a disaster. Joshua Nathan Strong Shame on the people who attacked the critics for the bad reviews, they are entitled to their opinion. But is it me or whenever Zack Snyder gets a bad review, it feels personal? Joshua Nathan Strong I have seen the movie twice now and I really love it. Yes the film did have flaws but I really, really love and enjoyed it. I would give it 8/10 stars. I thought the performances were great all around, especially Henry Cavill who carried the emotional weight of the film. His performance in this film, reminded me of Mark Hamill in ESB. I was really impressed by Gal Gadot, I was especially impressed by her screen presence. I was already excited for the solo Wonder Woman film, but after seeing her in BvS it has become one of my most anticipated movies. Ben Affleck was great, this characterization of Bruce Wayne/Batman not only reminded me of Frank Miller’s version of the character in TDKR but it also reminded me of James Bond. The Batman action sequences were more intense then I was suspecting, ferocious is a better word to describe them. You really get a sense from Affleck’s performace that this is not his Batman’s first rodeo. I actually liked Jesse Eisenberg’s Lex Luthor more than I thought I would. He provided a lot of comedic relief to the film at times and it really seemed like Eisenberg was playing two different characters. I know that this is not the Luthor that we are used to but as the DCEU goes on I imagine that we are going to get a fully formed version of the character. I really liked the cinematography, lots of wide shots (especially during the fight sequences) and I really liked the look of the film and shot selection. The action in the film was some of the best that I’ve seen in any movie. The fight between Batman and Superman, the Knightmare sequence and the sequence at the warehouse were the worth the price of admission alone. And in regards to the script, everything felt natural, I enjoyed the dialogue and everything seemed to based in character and emotion. One of my problems with the film is the editing, especially in the first act of the film as it went from sequence to sequence, it felt disjointed and clunky at times and it felt like the first 45mins/hour dragged, it didn’t pick up till the dinner sequence. SPOILER ALERT Another thing that I didn’t like was the scene where Diana opens the email from Bruce towards the end of the film and opens an attachment to see Lex’s files on the other members of the Justice League. IT WAS COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY and it killed momentum. And its extremely lazy that Lex Luthor is the one that comes up with the logos of Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg. It would have been so much better if they would have cut the scene after Diana finds out that Bruce knows her real identity when she sees the picture of her from WW1. The Flash cameo from early on in the film, Bruce finding the meta-human file and his speech at the end is enough to let the audience know that there’s other heroes out there. SPOILER ALERT OVER Some of the CGI bugged me, especially the Kryptonite. And, I feel like Lois Lane could have been handled better in the final battle but those could be nit picks. I thought the movie was really good and I found it to be very entertaining. Azrael “I would give it 8/10 stars. ” I’m noticing similar scores for those that enjoyed it across the board. Which is not bad all else consider. Maybe this isn’t a movie for critics but for fans. I’m just hoping that the DC fans that didn’t enjoy it don’t feel jaded and abandon all hope regarding the DCEU. With Suicide Squad on the horizon perhaps it will reinvigorate things. I do however question whether or not WB will continue to allow Snyder to helm the DCEU with two consecutive divisive outings involving their most notable characters. Joshua Nathan Strong I am legitimately worried about SS. One of BvS’s complaints is it’s dark tone, SS is said to be a darker film than BvS. We’ll see how critics respond Azrael “One of BvS’s complaints is it’s dark tone, SS is said to be a darker film” That actually makes sense though. You essentially have a team comprised of super villains but it also looks as if they will inject some humor in with the darkness and I’m perfectly fine with that. Justice League however is said to be a bit lighter in tone. “We’ll see how critics respond” I’m rather curious as to the response of critics to SS, but overall I really wouldn’t care just as long as the film is good. Joshua Nathan Strong Terrio said that the DCEU kicks off with a mini trilogy: MoS, BvS and JL. It makes sense that BvS is a darker film too. Joshua Nathan Strong In regards to Snyder, he only gets fired if the movie flops Ron Kantrowitz I will have to think about how I felt during and the night I finished watching it (Monday night) I left the theater smiling from ear to ear. It was a dimly lit movie but it wasn’t all doom and gloom. I thought the first aftermath of MoS was a great launching point. The first hand experience of Bruce Wayne was quite stunning. I was BORED watching the murder of Thomas and Martha Wayne (4-5th time we’ve seen it in a movie?) I’ve seen pearls drop moe than that in comic books and tv shows. This time it caught caught on the gun… So I guess that’s worth 10 minutes of screen time? oh and he falls down a well… But this time it was after the death! That was my honest to goodness biggest gripe of movie. The rest are not as big. I thought the whole cast was great. Even Jesse and Gal! My problem wasn’t the script, because I liked the movie. I think it was the editing. They jammed two movies into one. This as a MoS part two would have been interesting. Maybe the beginning kept in from Bruce’s perspective with the senate hearings, that was facinating to me. Clark’s perspective would have been reinforced by Martha, maybe more flashbacks of Clark and Jonathan, Perry and Lois. Bruce, Lex and a few others could have been the against side. I would have liked to see Bruce and Superman actually having exchanges in the Senate hearing. Differences in philosophy, Superman defending himself to the public and winning a lot of them over except Bruce. Outside the hearing Superman is still being Superman and Lex meddling with him through the press and staging things to make him look bad. I would like to find out more why he hated him so much. The final act could have been the duking out of Bats and Superman. Maybe Supes holding back and Bats eventually realizing they are more alike because they have to stop Lex from destroying Metropolis with Krytonian technology (Just not Doomsday in this one) 90-100 minutes. Second movie could have been the mystery of Wonderwoman and stopping Doomsday which had seeds planted in MoS2 because Lex is fascinated with meta-humans. He kidnaps Martha and Bats and Supes team up to stop him as well as I think had Warner Bros had a bit more patience this movie wouldn’t have felt so forced. Doomsday was just not nescesary,not even really earned in this one. Neither was Diana. Even so presented as it is, I think it was solid fun and entertaining. I want to see it again with fresh eyes and still see if I agree after a second viewing. 4/5 stars. Joshua Nathan Strong That’s not an editing issue, that’s a script issue Ron Kantrowitz Fair enough. But I think the parts to the engine were all there, just not assembled correctly. That may be a script issue, but I see it as something that could have possibly been fixed in the editing room. Joshua Nathan Strong You gave it a 4/5 but you think Snyder should be out, why? Just curious Ron Kantrowitz I liked Man of Steel, liked this movie, but I don’t think it’s overall a great formula for Superman. At some point Superman needs to be a beacon for good, and the leader of the JLA and I don’t see Snyder taking him that direction. Joshua Nathan Strong I don’t think Superman is Superman yet, Clark might wear the suit but he’s far from being fully formed Superman, he or we the audience hasn’t earned that yet. I think he will finally be Superman in JL and from there on out. Ron Kantrowitz Maybe after he gets his red underwear! Ha! GibLesPaul456 **********************SPOILER!!!************************************ Call this a hunch…but I believe Snyder and Terrio want Superman to be a beacon of hope after he comes back from resurrection (like Christ) and saves the world against Darkseid (like Satan). I mean it’s a real roundabout way of getting Superman to believe in himself to become the symbol of hope. Hopefully sad-faced Superman stays dead and hopeful inspirational Superman comes back in his place. I wish they would do this in a Superman solo movie…but they’ll probably do it for JL like you said. Joshua Nathan Strong Exactly Marc Madrigal Really liked this movie! Even though the first half was slow, the Doomsday fight was pitch perfect and worth the price of admission. Less of a Batman v Superman film and more of a lets-build-a-DC-universe-film-featuring-Batman-and-Superman. guy l I saw Deadpool last week and i didnt think very much of that film. I am seeing BvS tonight and I will see if i feel the same way…. guy l SPOLIERS_____________________———————___________________——————–ALERT I thought the movie was great. I was engaged the entire time! I don’t understand why people are calling it boring. Maybe they were too used to Popcorn Marvel flicks. I did not like the flashback sequences, but only because they were slightly confusing and a little too frequent (but they still were engaging and startling in some cases).I take a half a letter grade off for that. In terms of Batman killing and using guns, I thought it made sense within the context of the combat situation and some cases of possible collateral damage-those guys were trying to kill Batman though serves them right. Batman never committed cold blooded murder. (dream sequences in post-apocalyptic Gotham do not count), and i feel a little mislead after reading other reviews and being told that this Batman is a cold-blooded murderer without a conscience. The use of firearms by Batman is no different than the BATMAN ’89 film to THE DARK KNIGHT RISES. ( I even think we saw the origin for Fire Fly in this film.) Batman’s combat was awesome, Superman was great, if not a little brooding, but it makes sense within the context of past world events since the world is questioning whether he is still a threat or not. Wonder Woman was great, but I felt like the Justice League introduction was a little shoe horned, but so was the Avengers in Iron Man 2. I won’t say much else, other than I liked this movie a lot and it was a lot better than what the reviews on this site are saying about it. I would give the film a B. Everyone I saw it with like it as well and the theater I was in was packed. I want to see this Batman in action again because he is not a cold-blooded murderer, he is a vigilante who bends the rules of the law. I also want to see what happens with the Justice League especially after how the movie ends. Go see this movie and enjoy it, don’t let the reviews dissuade you from seeing this film it is entertaining at the least and a great DC film at the most. OH and it could go without saying I liked this film a lot more than Dead Pool. ZackBop As someone who LOVED Man of Steel (2nd favorite only to The Dark Knight), I was very disappointed with this movie. It felt unfocused. The whole “Batman versus Superman” thing felt like a subplot. They establish that Batman hates Superman and that Superman is not cool with Batman, but they got seemingly got more important things going on in their respective worlds. Superman is dealing with a world that is trying to control him and Batman is investigating that whole sex-trafficking ring (or whatever it was). These stories eventually come together via Lex Luthor, but I feel like it could have been SO much more focused. Frankly, Batman and Superman needed to interact with each other more. It’s just like these two dudes are hating on each other from a distance and then Luthor forces them to fight and then that’s it. They should have BOTH been investigating the same thing and taking issue with each other’s methods. Give all of Diana’s stuff to Clark Kent (the journalist). He should have been the one who’s investigating the metahumans. Like, Lex introduces the “Metahuman Theory” to the world, and Clark and Bruce take different approaches in how they react to that. Clark wants to find others like him, while Bruce wants to make sure he’s prepared to take down the other “threats” if necessary. And just go from there. You’ve got two guys who are focused on the same thing but approach it in entirely different ways. You can still throw the cameos in there, but it keeps everything focused on one singular idea. Adam Lance Hendrickson I am in awe of this film. As someone who liked Man of Steel, I found it encouraging when there were rumors that, “if you liked Man of Steel, you’ll like this one even more”. Then, all of the reviews hit Tues eve/Wed morn, and I was crushed (I did not get it line early enough Tues eve to see the advanced screening). I was pretty tepid going into the film Thursday night. Wow, did that disappear once Bruce Wayne’s voiceover came on! I knew from the onset that this was going to be an art house version of a comic-book movie. I found it incredibly poignant, well-written, well-directed, and the acting was just superb. What’s even more incredible to me is the way the movie deals with the characters. It’s almost exactly like what we are doing with the movie itself. The movie is a reflection of us, as a modern day society. In the real world, we don’t encourage those who are below average to be good, those who are good to be great, and so on (from a heroic point of view). You’re either a hero or you’re not. The critics’, and some fans’, reception to the film is so evident of this. We’re all nitpicking how heroic we want our heroes to be instead of allowing them to simply be heroic! I love the way Batman and Superman’s stories are woven together. I know, and I agree to an extent, that the Wayne family murder is played out, but I easily give it a pass, in this case, because of how it introduces the “Martha” aspect to Bruce’s haunted memory. Bruce has endured twenty plus years of losing faith in humanity, thus his brutality (I still didn’t see him kill anyone). You could argue that there were casualties, but I would argue that it’s not any different than the occupational hazards (criminal deaths, not civilians) that were present in Batman Begins, the Dark Knight, and the Dark Knight Rises. Anyway, Bruce has fallen very far from humanity, and the way the “Martha” plot point lines up, when he realizes how good Superman is trying to be, and how far he himself has fallen (the entire fallen point was so beautiful), it’s almost like he reverts back to the idealistic Batman we all want to see him be. Then, we have Superman, who everyone is trying to decide for him who he should be, how he should be, and what he should do. All the while, he’s trying to wrestle with the fact that he literally CAN’T SAVE EVERYONE. There’s so much suffering and death in the world, and on top of this he’s truly in love with Lois, and wrestling with how to keep that relationship healthy and realistic. Again, we’re not letting Superman decide his own journey, and even in the face of all of that confusion, in the end, he still is the selfless hero we know and love. With everyone trying to tell him how to save the world, he knows in his heart that Lois (and Martha) are the things that matter most to him, and rightfully so. Lois is his world. He’ll still be the best hero he can be for the world (and I truly think that’s the conclusion he comes to towards the end of the movie), but Lois comes first. Beautiful. Heroic. I can’t believe all of the naysaying about how “un”-heroic this movie is. The entire movie is about rebuilding our view of heroism. The fact that Bruce opens about falling, and ends the movie telling us that we need to “rebuild” is beautifully heroic. I haven’t even touched on the supporting characters, who I thought were all great and had an organic part in the story. I thought the introduction to the other Justice League characters was great, and I thought Wonder Woman’s part in the story was the perfect tease. She’s amazing in action, and the wisdom that comes out of her line delivery is inspiring. There is so much history in this DCEU!!! That’s the most frustrating part for me is that we have to wait to experience it all!!! Erny Rivera I can’t agree with you more. voice of reason Yikes Chris Hardy Watching Thomas Wayne escalate the robbery, get himself and his wife shot, and destroy his family sort of set the tone of the whole movie for me. Bungling the Wayne murders (and so soon after bungling Jonathan Kent’s death) is one of Snyder’s few major unforced errors. I attributed the problems with Jonathan Kent’s death in MOS to clunky editing and forgave it, but with the Waynes, it’s just a stupid story decision. Is the lesson of their deaths supposed to be, “Dont be a hero, it’ll get you killed”? Filmmakers learning the wrong lessons for a sequel caused a lot of people to turn on Batman Forever after B&R, and The Amazing Spiderman after ASM2. I guess time will tell what happens to MOS. guy l you can’t escalate an armed robbery, the man was protecting his family. Its kind of like telling a rape victim not to fight back during the rape. because she might make her rapist mad and rape her more. an armed robbery is a forcible felony and anyone has the right to do what they deem necessary to protect innocent life. I related to this scene, Thomas Wayne did not want his family to become victims. It was refreshing to not see the deer in the headlight Wayne’s while they were just randomly shot. then again its all about interpretation of the source material. Chris Hardy That rape analogy doesn’t work at all. Thomas Wayne balled up his fist and took a swing. That action caused the shooting. It’s really clear. He was protecting his family by taking a swing at a gunman while he’s holding a gun on him at point blank range? It’s a stupid move and a stupid story telling decision. This interpretation of the source material makes Thomas Wayne an idiot. guy l The fact is you’re blaming the victim for what happened to him and questioning his judgement as a man with a family. Whether aromas Wayne fought back or not, he still would have been a victim. You could argue that the way past incarnations of the Wayne murder were written poorly because he did nothing but try to talk the shooter down. This appraoch was different. And I agree with it because I would do the same. I wouldn’t want my family to be victims and i would rather fight and flee. I think this Thomas Wayne thought the same thing. Its matter of perspective relative to the person viewing it so i understsnd where youre coming from. I have no problem eith the other ways this origin is handled. Oumar Ras all ghul said as much in batman begins. “Training is nothing, without the will to act.” Daniel Van Cortlandt I get the discomfort some people have with this change. But why does Thomas Wayne have to be perfect? It would make sense to me that the father of Bruce Wayne might be a little bit of a hot head. You’re also assuming that this version of Joe Chill would have let them live had Wayne acted the way he usually does. Kattie Garza -spoiler alert- This is my opinion about the movie. Just saw it in theater and was very disappointed. This movie was bad….very bad. Sure the fight at the end was cool but only cuz of the graphics. Ben and Henry did a great job as Batman and Superman. But the movie was just so boring. They only fought for about 5-10 minutes after a very long and boring hour of talking. .. then more talking. (It wasn’t even interesting talk) Then it changed to Batman and Superman vs Supermonster. Sure we all knew they were going to eventually team up but the commercials kept selling the “Batman fighting Superman” bit that that’s what I came to see. Plus the fight was so lame and ended quickly. (batman: “I hate you!….wait, what? Our mothers have the same name? Let’s team up!!!”) Batman’s reason for wanting to end superman is reasonable and it was portrayed ok at the beginning but after all that boring running around by Lois and Lex made the impact of the reason forgetable. A good story teller will make you feel emotions and keep them with you as the climax of the impending battle draws near. During the whole first half everyone in the audience kept fidgeting in their seats. A clear sign of boredom as we waited for something to catch our interest. Plus what is batman doing with guns?! Batman does not use guns! And he does not kill! And that dream batman was more like Damian Waynes version of batman. Sure ppl can argue that “original” Batman used guns and killed but that was before he was given a real story and even DC stated that that Batman is not part of mainstream DC batman. When I saw him with rifles and firing hand guns I was like “wtf? That’s not batman…” plus that whole reference thing about God and the devil was overused x 2 . They also overused slow mode. To many “dramatic” slow mode scenes”. Well that’s my rant. (Had to cut things out since it’s a very long rant). Feel free to agree or disagree. I hope they don’t use the same producer for the Justice League. Robert Reineke The movie has problems at a fundamental story level. That’s a problem of the script and editing. I don’t have to repeat them, because I’m in agreement with many people. That said, it delivers big, bold visuals like few movies in the genre. One thing it’s not is glorified television. This satisfies a part of me that thinks there hasn’t been enough Jack Kirby in the Marvel films. I’ll take this anyday over the likes of Thor: The Dark World, Green Lantern, or either Fantastic Four. stock Sean’s review has had a chilling effect on me. I anticipated being mildly disappointed, going off what I believed would be Sean’s willingness to forgive the film its perceived faults. However, the main man of MMM was almost in FF mode on BvS. What’s an old Batman fan to do? I know, go see it for myself. The movie has brought out a variety of reactions from some odd corners. Some have seen it as allegorical for the continuous growing pains we currently experience in this country. What is a leader? What will we accept in our leaders? In that way, it’s imitating American life right now. I don’t like the way it’s turning out, but will the movie help, or only reinforce that opinion? Get back wichas later. pud333 Okay, where to begin? First, non spoiler thoughts: – I knew this would happen. I said it after this movie was announced, with Snyder firmly at the helm of the DCEU, that this movie would be polarizing. The reaction to this movie does not surprise me one bit, both from fans and critics alike. Regardless of what you thought of the film, you have to acknowledge Snyder’s big brass balls. Seriously, the balls on this guy. He gets bludgeoned over Man of Steel, and instead of going, okay, you got a point, he takes another quarter billion from WB and double downs on BvS. He went FULL Snyder. The only difference this time was he was rubbing it in your face in slow motion. Snyder has absolutely NO interest in even attempting to pander to the masses. He’s going to do whatever he wants to do. Live by the sword, die by the sword. This is definitely par for the course for the Snyder helmed DC films going forward. Justice League? Brace yourselves; the real shit storm is coming. Because of how polarizing this movie is, I don’t think it will have the legs to get to 1B. I just don’t. And that’s fine. I plan on seeing this three more times myself though. – I feel bad for those who didn’t like this movie, especially those like Sean who were so excited and dearly wanted to love the movie. That said, this movie was amazing. It is a bombastic, explosive, larger than life spectacle, in the best possible way. It is a feast for the eyes, and I geeked out through the entire movie. I had chills, I had teared up twice, and I loved some of the vintage nods back to the original Reeves Superman (whether done on purpose or not, it felt like a nod.) It’s by no means a perfect movie – no film is, but I will always reward a film that takes risks over one that doesn’t. The good, great, and simply awesome, outweighs any of the negative issues. When I see the negative responses from people who have seen this movie, I think, “Man, I think we watched two different movies!” – This movie was a breath of fresh air for me. As someone who feels superhero movies have gotten stale in the past couple of years (Walked out of AoU shrugging my shoulders, thought the last X-men movie was just okay, haven’t seen most super hero films like Ant-Man until they got to home release), I was looking for something new. Deadpool was fun, but the middle sagged a lot for me. This movie was like no other superhero movie put on screen before. – I was one of these folks who wasn’t happy when this movie was announced. I wanted a true MoS sequel. Not this… Batman movie with a cameo by Superman. But what we got, I truly feel, is a MoS sequel. Snyder said it months ago, and I believe him now that I’ve seen the movie. Yes the first part is Batman heavy, but it still felt like a Superman movie to me, especially once the fighting started and Doomsday came in. You have Superman villains, Superman music, Superman being the hero… it’s all there. This is a Mos 2. And I can’t wait for it to come out on Blu-ray so I can watch MoS and BvS back to back. Okay, on to the SPOILERY thoughts (Seriously I don’t know why anyone would be online right now if they hadn’t seen the movie yet. Shame on you. Go see the freaking film!): The good, great and simply awesome: – First time I teared up was seeing the deaths of Bruce Wayne’s parents again. I know people complained about having to see it again, but I thought it was important to have this within the movie, in order for the ending of the Batman v Superman fight to play out the way it did. By saving Martha Kent, Batman got a second chance to save “Martha.” And by Snyder doing it just like it was in TDKR, oh my god, I teared up. It was beautiful to see. – First time I had chills was during the revisiting of the battle in Metropolis. It was so awesome to see Bruce driving along beneath the Kryptonian ship. He’s right there in the thick of things, doing badass Batman things, and I had goosebumps. So good. – I thought the entire cast was great. The biggest surprise for me was Eisenberg’s Lex. I was so worried about this casting, but man did he surprise me. What sealed it for me, was the speech he was giving at the gala. He’s giving that speech, and partway through he loses his train of thought and starts talking about knowledge without power… wow. That was Lex right there. Being able to switch it on and off, and even losing control sometimes… that’s Lex. – Barry Allen showing up in Bruce’s dream just like in Crisis, warning him… that was awesome. All the Justice League nods were awesome. Yeah it broke up the film a bit when Diana was going through the files, but c’mon. The DC fanboy in me was just squealing with joy. – LOVED the apocalyptic future in Bruce’s dream. That visual of him looking out over the destroyed city with the pillars of fire shooting out of the earth just like in Morrison’s JLA storyline, “Rock of Ages” was a fanboy’s wet dream. – I loved that Superman was back to being noble again. Yeah, he had his self doubts, but you see that montage of him saving people, you see him humbled, show up before the senate hearing to be judged, and you see him being absolutely heroic as he sacrifices himself in his attempt to stop Doomsday. I had a feeling he’d die, but I loved how they handled it, and I liked how at the end people loved him finally. The nod to the old Reeves movies I was talking about was in the scene when Lois takes the Kryptonite spear away from Superman as he’s floating in the water. Totally reminded me of that scene when Reeves is wearing the Kryptonite necklace in the pool. I don’t know if that was intentional or not, but just knowing what kind of a fan Snyder is, I believe it was intentional. It’s just too reminiscent of that scene. And the love he had for Lois, while I’d like to have seen them spend more time on that, was great to see. – Wonder Woman. Her saving Batman the way she did, kick ass. So much fun seeing her go toe to toe with Doomsday. I’m gonna watch the shit out of Wonder Woman next year. – Batman. What an amazing Batman. Okay, I’m not going to belabor this point too much here, but the Batman killing thing: you gotta get over it. It’s the same stuff when Superman killed in MoS. Batman has killed in the comics before, just like Superman has. A Batman that doesn’t kill already exists; you had your Batman for three AMAZING movies by some dude named Nolan. It’s like when people saw MoS and said “This isn’t my Superman. My Superman is Christopher Reeves.” Well that’s great. You have those movies to hold on to forever. They made four of them! This is a different Batman, but I argue that the essence of Batman is there, just like the essence of Superman was there in MoS. He is vengeance, he is the night, he is Batman. Snyder takes Batman and takes it to the farthest conclusion of what a vigilante is. Look, I prefer my heroes not kill – that’s why Punisher has no appeal to me – but it is what it is. I guess bottom line is, it’s not as fun when it’s your guy that gets Snydered, is it? I figured there would be a chance of Batman killing, especially after seeing him blow up bad guys in the trailers, so I was prepared for it. Maybe that’s why I wasn’t so shocked. Seriously, it barely registered to me while I was watching it. And this is all coming from a guy who absolutely adores the Nolan Batman trilogy. Some people have the original Star Wars trilogy, some have the Lord of the Rings, but for me, it’s Nolan’s Batman. But I put that aside when those movies ended. Time for something new. – Speaking of something new, it was amazing to see something new on screen. I watched most of the movie with my mouth open, and I came out of the theater with a headache I was buzzing so much. That final fight with Doomsday, when Superman flies down from the heavens and fires his heat vision and Doomsday fires back… wow. Now THAT is a splash page. Gods on earth for sure. Thinking about the Civil War trailer that played before BvS now makes me giggle whenever I think of the shot at the end when 10 heroes long distance run at each other across the tarmac. (I’m still going to go see that movie and enjoy it, but that shot looks so silly to me now.) – The music. Oh, the music. It’s worth the cost of entry just for the score alone. – The second time I got teary was when I knew Superman was going to die. I genuinely started to well up. It was wonderful seeing everyone love Superman in the end. To paraphrase from TDKR: This was a good death. The not so good: – Pacing. While I still felt overall it was a brisk 2.5 hours, there was about 20 minutes in the middle when the movie sagged a bit under the weight of all its world building. It was inevitable, and while I don’t think it affects the quality of the movie, it is there. There’s this slow build up to the showdown, and from there it goes balls to the wall in typical Snyder fashion. – The fight between Batman and Superman was awesome, even though my guy got beat, but I wasn’t exactly happy with how the fight got instigated. The stuff from Batman’s side makes sense and it was fun, but ultimately it was Lex going, “Hey Supes. Fight him or I kill your mommy.” So that was kind of lame, but whatever. – Snyder. Okay, let me explain: Snyder is great, but it is clear he has very little interest in the alter egos of these heroes. He’s more preoccupied with the godlike aspects of the “super” part of the superhero equation. You know, I give him credit for sticking to his guns, but I feel there’s a bit of film maker snobbishness and arrogance on his part. They killed Superman at the end, and they also killed Clark. But a part of me feels like when Superman comes back in Justice League… we may not see Clark again. (At least not reporter Clark) I don’t know. That’s just how I feel. It really feels like he’s bored with the alter egos. And that is a true shame. The key to Superman has always been Clark. Always. But this is a new version, this is Snyder’s DCEU. I don’t think Snyder doesn’t understand these characters – he clearly does. It’s just that he’s not interested in the alter egos. So for those that hate Snyder, I got bad news for you: you’re probably going to hate the next 5 years. (At least when it comes to the movies he directly helms. I’m sure the other solo films will have different reactions.) – Superman’s death. While I teared up, and genuinely had the feels, Bruce’s line at the end, “I failed him in life, I won’t in death.” fell flat for me. Why? Because, dude, you barely even knew him! The first time you met him was at a gala! You probably knew him for a total 30 minutes, and most of that was spent fighting each other! So yeah, that fell flat. It is what it is though when you don’t do solo film build ups and just try to launch the team movies. But I was picked up again when he started talking about finding the other metahumans. – Debating. While I enjoy a good debate, the last three years of debating MoS wore me out. I don’t think I could handle another 2 before JL comes out. Final word: It really is an amazing movie. I don’t know where it falls on the “Is this the best superhero movie ever” scale, but all I gotta say is, BRING ON JUSTICE LEAGUE! Bob Marshall I left my first viewing (a midnight/3D showing – I hate 3D) and I felt kind of weird about it but I liked it. Second viewing I loved every single second of it, it’s not perfect but neither was the Dark Knight films. It’s very much a comic fans movie. For me it’s a solid 9/10. T.J. POSITIVES: – Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. Highlight of the whole film. I’m more excited about the solo WW film than Justice League at this point. – Can I please get some more of Jeremy Irons’ Alfred? Fantastic chemistry with Bruce. – Ben Affleck could be a great Batman. I’ll explain the caveat in the negative section. – Henry Cavill could be a great Superman. Once again, explanation in the negative section. – There were some neat visuals. Zack Snyder can do aesthetics. NEGATIVES: – I’m fed up “morally ambiguous” Superman. Superman is the ultimate hero. He doesn’t just do the right thing; he most often does the best thing. Morally ambiguous heroes are getting boring to me at this point because every studio has tried to make just about every film superhero morally ambiguous. It works better on some heroes than others, but it doesn’t work at all on Kal-El. Let Superman be Superman. – Ben Affleck did a great job playing Zack Snyder’s version of Frank Miller’s version of Bruce Wayne / Batman. Let me state a personal opinion – I do not like Frank Miller’s version of Batman. Batman is my favorite comic book hero, and I don’t think there’s anything heroic about Frank MIller’s Batman. He’s a bully and a sadist, and there’s nothing inspiring about that. That said, I appreciate Miller’s version (which is fascinating to read, I’ll grant you that) much better than Snyder’s take on Miller’s version. Snyder is more than comfortable with Batman breaking the “one rule”; he insists upon it. You may dismiss the Knightmare scene if you choose, but for me, sub-conscious Batman looked competent and eager to handle automatic weapons. Even this wouldn’t be so bad if the second scene of the whole movie wasn’t showing Bruce betraying the playboy billionaire mask and going full Batman in Bruce Wayne clothes, being self-sacrificing and caring for both a low-level employee who was badly injured and a small child who had just lost a parent in the disaster. The branding and the killing was bad; the inconsistency of character was worse. – This was one of the worst-edited films I’ve seen in quite some time. The transition between scenes is often jarring, and the sequence of the story is as uneven as the roads I drive on here in South Carolina. One of my complaints with Man of Steel was also the editing and sequence of the film, but as with many elements of Man of Steel, I have come to appreciate it much more thanks to the juxtaposition of BvS. – Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor. I appreciate the attempt at nuancing the character, but the social awkwardness and tendency to speak to himself made him seem more like a maladjusted teen off of his meds rather than a brilliant narcissist who is mortally offended by Superman’s purity. On a related note, and to paraphrase a reviewer from Criticwire, I challenge you to sum up Lex’s motivation for pitting Superman and Batman against each other in one cohesive sentence that doesn’t include the word “crazy”. I have a lot of nitpicks, too, but as it stands, I actually have more positives to negatives (though I did take more time to flesh out the negatives, granted) and if I have to be negative, I’d at least like to stick to more substantial issues. Nonetheless, I did not enjoy Batman V Superman. I wanted to love it, but I did not. The DC Cinematic Universe still has a lot of potential and I’m very excited for Suicide Squad later this year, but there need to be some fundamental changes made to the approach for me to remain interested in a Justice League team-up. pud333 The more I think about it, the more I realized the following: – This is definitely a movie made for hardcore DC fans. A lot of the pieces that were confusing the the masses (e.g.: Flash showing up in Bruce’s dream) are setup pieces to the larger story, the bigger picture. – BvS always was a setup film. And Terrio has said he sees this as a trilogy (quadrilogy?) MoS, BvS, JL1+2. And Superman is the connective tissue. Birth, Death, and Resurrection. – Those of us that liked BvS are in for a real treat with JL coming. I already feel like BvS complements and improves on MoS, and I truly believe once JL comes, the full impact will be felt. – The way I see this is like reading comics in singles vs in trade format. You pick up an issue, and have to wait a month for the next one. But when the trade paperback comes out, you can read it all in one sitting. For me, comics are better in the latter, and there have been many times reading it all at once has been infinitely more satisfying. I can’t wait to see JL, and I can’t wait to see all three (four?) movies in one sitting. Stephanie Siener Turner They tried to cram about 3 movies into one and ended up with a mess. There were plenty of high lights, but they seemed disconected. Esther I agree with you on that. I was trying to concentrate on the Batman/Superman conflict but the constant foreshadowing (e.g. Luthor’s meta-human files, Wonder Woman’s past, Batman’s message from the future) was confusing to me and even frustrating to watch. I know we’re leading up to Justice League but it was jarring as a viewer; as if the film was trying too hard to rush into it. Stephanie Siener Turner I got the impression from the dream sequences that Batman was being influenced in some way by Darkseid. Why else would he see parademons and omega symbols. When Superman says “Martha” Batman snaps out of it and becomes his old self again. If they would have made this more clear it would have helped to explain what seem to be some character inconsistencies. GibLesPaul456 Maybe Bruce was able to see an alternate timeline due to the time ripple of effect of future Barry Allen coming to warn him…we’ll probably have a better idea in JL;) Ian I just finished discussing the film with a good friend of mine, and he pointed out a fantastic detail that I had overlooked. When the Waynes leave the theater after seeing The Mark of Zorro, the marquee lists Excalibur as coming soon. I just thought it was a nice atmospheric touch to establish the setting, but my friend pointed out something else: In the finale of Excalibur, Arthur is stabbed by Mordred and has to further impale himself in order to defeat his foe. Arthur “dies” with the expectation that he will return when he is needed most. This is exactly how Superman and Doomesday’s final confrontation plays out. Mr. Snyder told us what would happen in the opening frames of the movie if we knew what to look for! Details like this are among the reasons why I truly enjoy this film. Joshua Nathan Strong After seeing the film again for the third time, I wished they would’ve done more with Superman in terms of action. I think he had one solo action sequence to Batman’s 2 or 3. After searching on the internet it seems to me that some people don’t like what’s going on with Superman, claiming that Snyder hates the character. In my opinion, Clark (not Superman) has never been interesting. The movie really explored the emotional state of the character and it’s a logical next step from what happened in Man of Steel. Henry Cavil said that he is really basing his portrayal on the comics before making the character entirely his own because Clark is not fully formed Superman yet. And I totally agree, despite wearing the S on his chest, Clark is not Superman. He’s unsure of his place in the world, his relationship with Lois and despite being 35 years old at the time of the movie, he is still getting used to humanity as Superman. At the end of the film, when he decides to kill Doomsday and thus accepts his own death, he made that transition. He has become the Man of Steel (which should have never been the title of the reboot, Last Son of Krypton fits the story much better in my opinion) and accepts all that comes with the role. That’s a great character arc. I believe that when we see Superman in JL and especially in his post JL solo film, that Superman will be Superman, he just had to earn it. GibLesPaul456 In a perfect world…I would have like to seen a 5 minute scene where Superman pulls off a civilian rescue like in the Dr. Pepper BvS comic. voice of reason Im gonna watch this movie every night. To help me fall asleep… that is if the laughs of its stupidity and the shear awe of its ineptness wear off and its pure bland boring core is all thats left – ill probably pass out before the batman origin is over (thats right, it goes there. Again. And poorly) Stephanie Siener Turner Before everyone dumps on Snyder we need to consider what he was mandated by the studio to make. Unlike Nolan, who was allowed to make his own story independent of universe building, and unlike the people at Marvel who got to create stories that were later worked into a larger universe, Snyder had to create a film that’s main goal was to set up other movies. He also had to reboot a character too soon after the conclusion of a beloved iteration of that character because WB didn’t want their cash cow sitting on the sidelines. Much of what was wrong with the film comes from WB trying to catch up with 8 years of Marvel in one movie. Esther I confess that much of Sean’s review was exactly what I was thinking during and after the movie. If the film’s basic issue was confusing storytelling I could still enjoy it. But for me it didn’t grasp the conviction of Batman and Superman or at least, didn’t display it in a way I could wrap my head around it. (Hearing the MMM guys articulate the motivations behind these superheroes helped me understand the movie better). For once in a superhero movie I wanted there to be a bit less fighting and some more clear dialogue. Hopefully it’ll seem more cohesive the second time I watch it. I give Snyder credit for taking big risks with drastic storytelling and because the reviews are so divided, I wonder if it’ll push sales even further. When one friend tells you the movie is bad and another that it is awesome, you’ll have to see it for yourself to decide. But the moment child Bruce Wayne is being lifted up by bats into the light I was thinking, “Is this actually happening or is it metaphorical?” Several times in this film I couldn’t tell what was actually happening to the character or if it was a personal hallucination–and that set up a sensation of confusion and frustration for me throughout the movie. know I shouldn’t compare this film to MoS too much but I was anticipating certain themes (hope, family, responsibility) to resonate or at least reverse-mirror in BvS. But I couldn’t find it. BvS felt like an entirely different film going in a completely different direction. It isn’t a bad thing but I was frustrated with one aspect of Superman: He does heroic things but he doesn’t *say* why he’s doing it or *what* he is trying to do. His girlfriend, mother, and dead father have their reassurances for him but when Superman arrived at the Capital, I was anticipating him to defend himself. He doesn’t get the opportunity to do so there but I wanted him to verbally defend himself to the public. Remember how the internet roared in refusal over Ben Affleck? I was impressed by his performance. Batman driven to such extremes that he is brutal, paranoid, and cold. He has become so cynical and bitter that he’s willing to die in one last fight so long as he takes the Man of Steel with him. But Batman doesn’t get to make that sacrifice; he lives and (hopefully) learns. But if the ending of BvS has truly had an effect on Batman then he will have the motivation to rebuild himself, as well as learn to reconnect with others. Jesse Eisenberg as a youthful insane Lex Luthor was interesting (I saw shades of Heath Ledger’s Joker in his performance) but a bit too over-the-top in this film for me. I would have preferred him to dial back the insanity at first and then gradually descend into madness. He fulfills the role of a hypocritical villain; Luthor accuses Superman of being a god while Luthor’s own hubris makes him do cruel and twisted things as he toys with the lives of others. It was good to see the supporting cast against but to me they seemed restrained in their roles. I missed Jor-El as a mentor figure; his conversation with his son in MoS had a warm and reassuring presence and if he could have conversed a line or two with Superman in this movie about facing the cynicism of the world, I think it would’ve given some balance to the film. MovieBuff AB Hey Guys.. i have just posted a review of this amazing movie. do watch and comment your opinion Svartpest (Spoiler) How do you suppose Superman survived the end of BvS but Zod didn’t survive a broken neck? Both different things but a broken neck compared to a giant hole through your chest? (bone and organs).