Captain AmericaMythology Open Forum: CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR written by Robert Reineke May 5, 2016 CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR is one of the most anticipated movies of the year, from any genre. It features a gaggle of superheroes in conflict, a new version of Spider-Man, the debut of Black Panther, and has been getting overwhelming positive reviews. It also should open very big, so there will be no shortage of people who have seen the film. I’m sure our readers are going to be eager to sound off with their own opinions of the film. So, here’s our latest open forum for the third big comic book film of the year. I’m sure our readers will have no shortage of topics to discuss, favorite bits and perhaps a few not so favorite moments. But, perhaps a starting point is where the film ranks overall in the MCU and in comic book films overall. Anyways, this is your forum. Have at it. Open Forum: CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR was last modified: May 5th, 2016 by Robert Reineke Related Open Forum 18 comments 0 Facebook Twitter Google + Pinterest Robert Reineke previous post How The CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR Writers Chose Sides next post Weekly Ratings Roundup: May 1 to 7, 2016 You may also like Making Mine Marvel CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE FIRST... April 8, 2015 MMM Podcast #170: CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE WINTER... April 13, 2014 Marvel Sets CAPTAIN AMERICA 2 for April... April 5, 2012 Marvel’s CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR Begins Production May 7, 2015 See CAPTAIN AMERICA In Augmented Reality! April 4, 2014 THE WINTER SOLDIER Gets His Own Character... March 5, 2014 Cap And Iron Man Go To CIVIL... February 19, 2016 Report: CAPTAIN AMERICA 3 Coming May 6,... March 13, 2014 42nd Annual Saturn Awards Nominations Announced! February 24, 2016 Weekly Ratings Roundup: March 12 to 25,... March 26, 2017 Adrian Edmondson I wish BvS was like this movie in the sense that there was a REAL reason for the conflict . Also this movie did a better job of handling it’s supporting characters ( they actually had a reason to be there ) and I can’t forget Spidey . I think we can see the next billion dollar franchise in the making . ZackBop This movie was good, but it wasn’t the best superhero movie of all time. It wasn’t even the best MCU movie of all time. As far as I’m concerned, TDK is still king of the genre. But there was a lot of good stuff in CW. Michael W Cornish shakycam was so annoying Stephen The movie was great, but after first viewing it definitely is not the greatest Superhero Film of all time. The Dark Knight trilogy still holds that title. As far as MCU, I currently rank it 3rd behind The Winter Soldier and Guardians of the Galaxy. I will be seeing it again on Monday and expect this to rise to number 2 (It will be very hard for a Marvel film to top the Winter Soldier for me). My personal highlight of the film was Ant-Man by far. I also smiled a lot when Spider-Man showed up. It was somewhat surreal to see Spider-Man amidst the more established MCU characters. I thought Holland was a great Spider-Man, his Peter Parker not so much. But I am also going to give him the benefit of the doubt as he essentially had to basically just drop into this beloved character without the benefit of his own solo film. So can’t fault him as he has not yet been given much screen time to really develop and show who this Peter Parker kid is and how he differs from previous versions. I thought the Black Panther was a wonderful addition. And Daniel Bruhl did a tremendous job and I rank his performance as one of the better Marvel villains. Overall great film. Wasn’t as great as the hype suggested but still outstanding. I can’t wait to watch it again. I am thrilled to be able to own this and BvS in a few short months. (I am having a difficult job determining which one I liked more. I will probably lean towards CW due to execution, but also really loved the gravitas and real world feeling of BvS. Also the symbolism of how big and important Batman and Superman are/were). Great job Marvel/Russos! 8.8/10 GibLesPaul456 This is what I was looking for in an Avengers sequel…the fact that it manages to tie-in the consequences of Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron with the introduction of Black Panther and Spider-Man within a natural flow is amazing. The airport scene is the most fun and entertaining comic book superhero spectacle ever put onscreen. And listen…this is the 6th movie with Tony Stark and 5th movie with Steve Rogers and to see these guys throw down with all that history…it makes one speechless with emotion when it happens. This is truly one of the gems from Marvel Studios and a great start to Phase 3. Anthony_T_Caruso I’ve seen this movie three times now. The first time I walked out of it, I thought it was hands down Marvel’s best film yet and ranked up with The Dark Knight as the best comic book movie of all time. After having time to digest it, and after seeing it a few more times, it’s fallen a bit in my rankings. I would say Guardians of the Galaxy is still Marvel’s best film to date, with Captain America: Civil War being their second best. In terms of best comic book movies ever, The Dark Knight and Batman Begins are still above both of them in my opinion, and will be hard to top by any studio. Having said that, the movie is PHENOMENAL. And I will give credit where credit’s due and say that the airport scene in this movie is far and away the best superhero action sequence we’ve gotten in any superhero movie to date. The entire scene was worth the price of admission alone, and had the entire movie been that fifteen minutes, I would have been happy. Luckily for us though, that one scene wasn’t the entire movie. Let me get my two nitpicks out of the way first: 1) The beginning dragged in my opinion. Way too much exposition and took long to set up all the pieces before really getting into the plot of the film. Very similar to Batman v Superman in that regards, though unlike Batman v Superman, everything set up in the beginning ended up paying off in satisfying ways throughout the rest of the movie. I just wish they had gotten to the point a little quicker. I can see myself skipping some of it upon Blu-Ray after watching it a few times. 2) Again, similar to the breakout star of Batman v Superman, Civil War could have worked completely fine without Spider-Man. There was no reason to include him in this film other than to put Spider-Man in a Marvel movie. Like I said though, both are nitpicks. Let me get into some positives real quick, starting with Spider-Man. As much as he didn’t need to be in this film, I’m definitely glad that he was. He added a much needed sense of humor, and Tom Holland killed it both as Peter Parker and as Spider-Man. Although he probably only had about twenty minutes of screen time, he’s already become the definitive wall crawler in my book. He was hilarious, charming, and kick-ass as Spider-Man should be. The other two characters who gave him a run for his money in terms of stealing the show in my book were Chadwick Boseman as Black Panther – my God, I cannot wait for his solo film; his acting, the writing of the character, and his costume were all spectacular – and Paul Rudd as Ant-Man – who is definitely going to see a bump in ticket sales during his next solo outing! I liked that the movie took time to let us see why each character stood where stood, because it really added to the weight of everything. The final fight between Captain America and Iron Man was heartbreaking; it could never have worked without all of the films leading up to this, which is another reason why this movie succeeds where Batman v Superman fails (and I actually really enjoy that movie!). Interesting setup for Phase 3. Are Cap. and Bucky going to be in Black Panther’s solo film since they’re hiding out in Wakanda? Also, I guess Ant-Man is an outlaw again and won’t be eating dinner with his wife and her cop boyfriend anymore, huh? Can’t wait to see where we go from here! Joshua Nathan Strong The best CBM of all time… Not even remotely close. A very good movie… Yeah Chadwick Boseman was the real star here. Paul Rudd was great. And Tom Holland is the best SpiderMan ever, now if they could fix his costume. Did anyone notice Wanda’s accent go in and out? Due he first act, she had an American accent. After that her accent would get very thick in places and during the end it was gone again. I wasn’t big on the cinematography, the framing was really bad in spots. Why was the Vison wearing clothes? It was very awkward. I was looking for the Russo Brothers to cement themselves as directors and I came out of the movie, disappointed. I couldn’t tell you what a Russo Brothters movie is to save my life. Marcus and McFeely are the best writers in the MCU. While I loved Ant Man and Spider Man, you can tell that they were shoehorned at the last minute. Adam Lance Hendrickson Ranks behind Guardians, the Avengers, and Captain America: The Winter Soldier for me. I might even like Captain America: The First Avenger a little more than Civil War. Tom Holland easily steals the show. Chadwick Boseman is also fantastic, and I cannot wait for the Black Panther and Spiderman: Homecoming movies. Right from the start, my mind was boggled that we haven’t had a Black Widow movie yet. She’s just so badass. I think this movie stretched the line between camp and seriousness pretty close to their limits. The “giant” Ant-Man scene comes to mind. There was a lot of filling in the blanks (from previous world building stories) to the plot of this movie, which was nice for a change, as opposed to the usual, intense world-building that goes on. Chris Evans is great, as always, but I was particularly impressed with Downey. He was written really well in this movie, which was a welcomed return for me because I thought his character’s writing took a bit of a dip during Avengers: AOU. The ending was really emotional and fantastic, but I thought the “epilogue” was a bit too safe. They didn’t want anyone leaving the theater too emotionally damaged. I was actually most surprised by the many similarities between Civil War and BvS, and I was very impressed by the complete difference in vision between the two. Civil War did a really great job highlighting the international concerns and response to such powerful superheroes. Another solid entry for the MCU, and it sets up future MCU entries with a bit more question, as opposed to shoehorning what’s coming next. I appreciate that the most. Can’t wait for Doctor Strange! Michel D Perfect. I saw it weeks before it came out via advance screening and saw it opening day. The movie had so much and it all just fit. Black Panther and Spidey were amazing as the newcomers. Ant Man is in my top 5 when it comes to MCU films, I hope his outstanding showing in this helps his sequel. Also went in TeamIronMan and left with the same team. It’s been amazing seeing Tony grow from his very first film to this. Jason Burkett Two things: 1. How did anyone possibly capture Wanda at the airport? Yes, I know she was hit by the sonic blast, but she wasn’t unconscious or anything. Even Ant-Man could have shrunk down and hid after he escaped from the webbing around his feet. Did they all just willingly submit? 2. When we will pick up this storyline and see the next sequence in the Cap/Falcon/Wanda storyline? Really not until Infinity War part 1? Oumar I saw it twice this weekend. Once on Saturday and once on Sunday. The first viewing I loved the beginning and felt that this wasn’t a typical Marvel film. It had a seriousness and the writing was top notch. They lost me when Spider Man came into the picture. I thought it was unnecessary and shoe horned, and I didn’t much care for him at all. I think that they should have brought in someone that was already established. Daredevil to me would have been great. Not only is he someone we already know but would have connected the movie and tv verse. Other than that I thought the movie was great. Great action and performances all along. I came in worried that I could not side with Tony and I just couldn’t do it. I couldn’t even agree with wanting to sign the accord after what happened with Shield & Hydra. If Shield was infiltrated why wouldn’t the same be possible with The United Nations? I thought Cap’s point that “People have agendas and Agendas change,”‘ Was on the nose and made the need for the Avengers all the more important. Tony’s continued mistakes in the 8 years prior to this movie, make it very difficult for me to trust his motives. His ego always wins out. Not at any moment during the film did I feel like, “yeah these guys have a point.” Black Panther was perfect. Boseman was the perfect casting choice and his introduction and motivations were very well done and did not feel the least bit shoehorned. Zemo was a great villain and I enjoyed that his plan was not to destroy the world, but to destroy the avengers. It was a nice change of pace and i’m glad that he did not die and am looking forward to his return. I also wish they hadn’t killed Crossbones. I like Frank Grillo and would have liked to see him & Cap go at it a few more times. The humor in the film is much better handled than in other Marvel films. It didn’t feel forced and seemed to come naturally and organically through most of the film. This is why is sticks out so much during The airport sequence which was great fun. But the fun and constant joking made the entire battle feel more like a game of pick up basketball than a real fight between friends and allies. When War Machine was shot down, it really didn’t impact me at all. It didn’t helped either how heavily it was featured in the trailers. All in All, it was a great movie, the best Marvel film yet. The title of Best Comic book movie still goes to the Dark Knight Trilogy. But this was a great effort from Marvel and I really hope that this is the new standard and they continue with this brand of film. alicestyless I am a super fan of Cosplay. I bought my cosplay from http://www.alicestyless.com with wholesale price. Their service is really great. And their Cosplay Costume are handmade on your size. Robert Reineke I liked the film, but I’m not in love with it. Frankly, I think it’s a significant step down from Winter Soldier. The big fight relies on Tony Stark, a guy that thrives on problem solving, the logical Vision, Black Widow, and others, not stopping to listen when a guy that they know always tells the truth starts to explain what’s going on. There’s more than a little bit of the “idiot plot” going on here. It’s not like Bucky set off the EMP from a jail cell, so obviously there is something more going on, that supposedly smart people should twig on to. The fight itself is fun, but it’s built on a flimsy foundation. And the best beats are from a shoehorned in Spider-Man and Ant-Man, who have no clear emotional stakes in the outcome. Arguably, it’s out of character for Ant-Man to even be involved in this. The conflict also relies on the friendship between Steve and Bucky which after three films I’m still not convinced of. Even moreso, Bucky is by far the least interesting character in a film that’s overloaded with characters. I think using events from The Avengers to justify the Sokovia accords is flimsy at best. Yeah, the alternative is that they sit on the sidelines and watch New York get invaded and nuked. Winter Soldier where a government agency intends the deaths of millions of Americans, also doesn’t seem to support the accords either. There’s some stuff in Age of Ultron that supports it, and the beginning of Civil War, so use that stuff, don’t rely on weak arguments to pad out a scene. They seem to sidestep the question of why Scarlet Witch is on the team. And, then, Tony Stark doesn’t even bother to try to convince her and basically puts her under house arrest without even explaining the situation to her? He has a phone. Visually, I have massive problems with the Russos who I just don’t think have a cinematic eye. They clearly want to be Paul Greengrass in some of the action scenes, and they just don’t have the chops. They don’t layer their frame more than sporadically and have no interest in mise-en-scene, other than making the backgrounds mostly gray, but also static and boring. They’re good with actors and tone, but they look like they’re directing television even more than Joss Whedon. But, we got a real emotional performance from RDJ, the airport fight was a lot of fun, the quips landed, it was paced well, and it was acted well. I liked Bruhl’s ultimate plot too. Black Panther probably ought to have driven the plot more, but he was easily one of the highlights. It’s a good, entertaining blockbuster, but I don’t think it’s even close to Marvel’s best. The central conflict perhaps relies on both sides being in the wrong. Steve is perhaps arrogant in his individualism and Stark, through much of the film, doesn’t seem much interested in uncovering truth. That’s fairly interesting, especially when Bruhl’s ultimate plan relies purely on relaying the truth. That’s more interesting than the fictional politics of the MCU. I’ll say I think BvS served up the political issue better, albeit didn’t discuss it to a significant level, in framing it in 9/11 imagery. stock Agree, except for the Zemo card? I couldn’t figure out the angle–elite mercenary or vengeance riddled family man? And how in heck could he possibly know the stuff he seems to know? Like how people he doesn’t know will react to certain cues? Sure wish you were on the podcasts, Robert. They need a dissenting opinion thrown in there, even if only as devil’s advocate. Not everything is the coolest thing ever. Hope you get back to the movies from our past soon. Been thinking about Time Bandits lately for some reason. Robert Reineke Thanks for the kind words. I’ve been super busy at work, so even if I wanted to participate in a podcast, there’s really been no time. I didn’t even get to see Civil War until after the latest podcast was recorded. And, honestly, I’ve overcommitted myself as it is to various sites. I have my regular podcast over at http://wherethelongtailends.com/ (we talked some BvS in the latest episode after Alphaville), I’m still working through the Adam West series with Bill over at BoF and just had a review on The Caped Crusade published, I’m preparing for an upcoming stint on The Director’s Club podcast, which I highly recommend, and I have various other irons in the fire. And I have a wife and a dog. Plus, I kind of enjoy the freedom of not having to engage with pop culture on an immediate basis, but like the time to reflect and analyze a given work without having to engage with the hype train. And it’s like herding cats as it is just to line up people’s schedules without throwing another time zone into the mix. But, Sean knows where to reach me and if the opportunity presents itself I’m sure I’ll be on a podcast at some point. And, I’ll see if I can think of something to work on once the television season winds up. Speaking of which, I should be working on the latest post. stock Sounds like a full schedule. Maybe I’m being a little hard on the podcast, but I’m still working through Batman 89 not being on the top 25 Superhero movies EVER! But I understand busy. I’ve got like 9 birthdays and Mothers Day this month! Thanks for the linc. Look forward to checking it out. TheFlash1984 I felt the conflict felt genuine, like it was a can of soda pop ready to burst open. The only thing I felt was it didn’t need Zemo, nor the 5 Winter Soliders. I felt the accords, which Zemo’s plan seemed to rely on yet couldn’t predict happening, were enough and just having Stark investigating Bucky’s past as a means to find out where he is discovering the murder of his parents would have worked. Plus, I just don’t think Bucky would be have been so sloppy to take out a target on a dark, isolated road in front of the one CCTV camera. He’d either not have done it there or he would have got the tape and destroyed all evidence. Robert Reineke I will say I’m getting tired of the cliché of the guy shooting the security camera after he’s done whatever he was planning on doing. That’s purely a movie thing and makes no sense.